The Trump Tapes, page 22
Like many Americans, I continued to travel around the country, unaware the virus was a threat here. Instead, my reporting was focused on Trump’s foreign policy and his dealings with foreign leaders.
The day after this interview, I started trying to get details of his phone call with President Xi, and, preferably, I wanted the full transcript. I had been told by a longtime source that if I heard Trump’s private conversations with foreign leaders it would “shake the pillars of the republic.”
Going back to the Nixon Tapes or the Trump-Zelensky transcript, I knew that verbatim accounts of a president’s conversations have an evidentiary purity that could significantly aid my inquiry.
INTERVIEW 8: I’m Number One
Phone call, Air Force One
February 19, 2020
TRUMP:
There has been no president even close that has done what I’ve done in three years. You know it and so does everybody else. Let’s see whether or not you’re willing to write it.
BW:
Okay, well…
COMMENTARY: I reached President Trump by phone at 1:45 on Wednesday, February 19th.
OPERATOR:
Mr. Woodward, you’re connected to the Air Force One operator.
BW:
How are you?
SECOND OPERATOR:
Great, sir. One moment for President Trump.
BW:
Thank you.
COMMENTARY: He was on Air Force One, flying to Arizona for a campaign rally. It was ten months before the election. The coronavirus remained no more than a sidebar in everyday life, national news, and my own reporting.
I was fully focused on getting the full story of Trump’s foreign policy decisions: North Korea, Russia, China, Afghanistan, and Iran in particular. I wanted to know what was going through the president’s mind when he was making these decisions. What did it mean for the United States’ role in the world? What did it mean for our national security when the president shunned allies and wrote personal letters to dictators? This was the danger scenario I was focused on for the United States at this moment.
We didn’t have a great phone connection during this call. It’s clear that Trump can’t hear me very well. He talks over me… more than usual.
BW:
Hello?
SECOND OPERATOR:
Go ahead, Mr. President. You are connected.
TRUMP:
Hi, Bob!
BW:
Sir, how are you?
TRUMP:
Hi.
BW:
Good.
TRUMP:
I’m good. I’m on the plane. I’m going to Arizona. We gave them about two days’ notice. And we have 30,000 people lined up to see a speech tonight. I’m going to a fundraiser first and then a speech I give tonight. And tremendous crowd in Arizona, like beyond. And then tomorrow I do the same thing in Las Vegas. I go tonight to Las Vegas, and I do the same thing in Las Vegas. Then I come home. I told Jared to speak to you, and I believe he has.
BW:
Yes. I—
TRUMP:
And I just told him a little while ago that if you would do me a favor, Jared, and coordinate a little bit with Bob so that Bob can speak to anybody he wants to, Jared will handle it. Very capable guy, Jared. You can’t get people like this.
BW:
We talked once.
TRUMP:
One smart cookie.
BW:
I’m scheduled to see him—
TRUMP:
If you could deal with Jared a little bit. See me whenever you want. Lindsey Graham just walked into the room. The room is Air Force One, so—[laughter] we’re flying over to Arizona from Nevada. But if you could, see me any time you want, but if you could deal with Jared, Jared’s got a whole list of whatever you need and people that you could speak to and everything good.
BW:
That’s great. I was talking to—
TRUMP:
And if you could also, because I gave you access to those letters that nobody else has ever seen, nobody else, even those that were written. If you could treat those with great respect.
BW:
I appreciate that. And I talked to Matt Pottinger at length yesterday. We’re going to talk again.
TRUMP:
Right. Good.
BW:
And what I have asked him to check with you on is I would like to get the notes of your meetings with Chairman Kim, because that’s where the rubber meets the road, obviously. And I think people—
TRUMP:
Now, I didn’t make notes. It’s possibly, somebody did. You know, I had dinner with him. I met with him, you know, on three occasions. But I had dinner with him, a long, beautiful dinner with him. I had lunches with him and stuff. But I don’t have guys sitting there writing notes.
BW:
Okay. Well—
TRUMP:
Only Bolton would write notes. He’s, you know, a schmuck. And Chairman Kim didn’t want Bolton at the meeting. Chairman Kim said, I cannot allow him to be at the meeting. Because he was the one—I told you the story. When he made the statement about “Libyan model,” that really set us back.
BW:
Right. Well, and of course—
TRUMP:
And Chairman Kim would not allow him in the same room with us.
BW:
And Bolton was—
TRUMP:
He’ll probably have notes anyway, because, you know, make them up. [laughs]
BW:
—calling for regime change.
TRUMP:
Anyway—
BW:
Well, I appreciate that.
TRUMP:
Bob, it could be that somebody has notes. I’ll tell you that. I’m sorry, excuse me, go ahead, Bob, what did you say?
BW:
Yes. No, I would love to see those notes. Matt said he thinks that he had some and maybe there’s some officially.
TRUMP:
Okay, good. [to someone else] Would you tell Matt Pottinger, would you tell Matt to speak to Bob and to tell him about the meetings, and if he’s got some notes he can tell him pretty much what he has to tell him about the meetings that we had with Chairman Kim? [to BW] I mean, the third meeting he offered us to close one of his big nuclear sites. And I said, no, you’re not ready to make a deal.
BW:
Yes. Right, I know—
TRUMP:
And I respectfully left.
BW:
I mean, that’s—
TRUMP:
But that was the third meeting. Basically there were two meetings and then we had a meeting at the line. You know, the line that nobody ever crossed [mumbles] until I crossed it.
BW:
Yes. That’s right. That’s right. Well, good. I’d love to get those, and I’m—
TRUMP:
Anyway. Jared will work—[to someone else] and tell Matt Pottinger to work with Bob. And that will be fine. He can see me if he’d like. [to BW] And, Bob, I’m available when you need me. I’m pretty busy, to tell you the truth, but I’m available.
BW:
Okay. What I want to do is, I want not to waste your time. I want to get lined up what I can find from other people and from notes, and as you know, people keep diaries—
TRUMP:
Good.
BW:
And then come to you and say—
TRUMP:
Good.
BW:
—okay, here’s what I’ve got. Basically the question is, what was going through your mind as you said what you said or made whatever decision it was on a range of issues—
TRUMP:
Okay.
BW:
—in foreign policy, China, North Korea, Russia—
TRUMP:
Fine. You let me know when you’re ready. We’ll set aside some time.
COMMENTARY: I was convinced at the time the important story was Trump’s relations with those countries.
TRUMP:
Look, we’ve done a great job, Bob. Now in the meantime, there’s no war with North Korea.
BW:
I’ve noticed that.
TRUMP:
Iran is behaving nicely. We’ll see if that continues. It might not. You know, it might not. I’m a very—I’m like you. We get it. We get the world, okay?
BW:
I’m going to turn my recorder on—
TRUMP:
Soleimani was a very big event.
COMMENTARY: Trump is referring to his decision to have the head of the Iranian Quds Force killed in a drone strike on January 3rd.
TRUMP:
The head of Pakistan, the prime minister of Pakistan, Khan, said the biggest event of his lifetime. I had no idea. Other people have said the same thing: it was an earth-shattering event.
BW:
So what’s this with Attorney General Barr going on now? I know—
TRUMP:
It’s a false rumor, false statement. It’s a false statement. Well, he made the statement about Twitter. It just feels like—it’s not Twitter, it’s social media. Because I don’t call it Twitter, I call it social media. Without social media, number one, I wouldn’t have won, and number two, you know, I’m number one on Facebook. Zuckerberg came to the White House two weeks ago. Sort of a group of people.
BW:
So what’s going on between you and the attorney general, sir?
TRUMP:
Said congratulations, you’re number one on Facebook.
BW:
This is all for the history—
TRUMP:
And I’m number one on Twitter. That’s public information. And if I didn’t have—so even though they may be against me—maybe they’re not—but even though—When you’re number one and when you have hundreds of millions of people, whether they’re against you or not they still read what you say because you put out a statement. I don’t need commercials.
BW:
[laughs]
TRUMP:
When you’re number one, you don’t need commercials. And number two is Modi, but he’s got 1.5 billion people. I have 350. You know? So it’s a little different.
BW:
So tell me about the—this is all for the serious history, Mr. President.
TRUMP:
Social media—I wouldn’t probably be talking to you right now if it weren’t for social media.
BW:
I understand.
TRUMP:
At least not in this capacity.
BW:
I understand that.
TRUMP:
In Air Force One, beautifully riding to the great state of Arizona. You know? I wouldn’t be talking to you, probably. So it’s very important.
BW:
Sir, what’s—
TRUMP:
It’s just fake news that he’s quitting.
COMMENTARY: Trump returned to my question about Attorney General Barr. Six days earlier, Bill Barr had blasted Trump in a remarkable television interview:
BARR:
Public statements and tweets made about the department, about people in the department, our men and women here, about cases pending in the department, and about judges before whom we have cases make it impossible for me to do my job.
TRUMP:
Fake news.
BW:
Okay, but what did he say to you—
TRUMP:
You know, someday—
BW:
I mean, this again is for serious—
TRUMP:
—everybody leaves.
BW:
—history. You know, it’s got a lot of people all in a twitter about it, to use that term.
TRUMP:
Good, that’s what I like.
BW:
[laughs] You like—
TRUMP:
That’s what I like. I like that everybody’s in a twitter. That’s okay with me. Keep them that way.
BW:
Well, it’s working—
TRUMP:
In the meantime, I’ve got great polls. We’ve got internal polls that we’re beating everybody. I put out a statement on that today, I don’t know if you saw. The internal polls, we’re beating everybody. But the fake news is at it again. They like to put in polls where I’m not.
BW:
Okay, now, sir, anyone who knows the Constitution realizes you as president have authority over every department, including the Justice Department.
TRUMP:
Yep.
BW:
And—
TRUMP:
That’s right. Total. And I haven’t exercised that authority. I’ve let people run it.
BW:
Okay—
TRUMP:
I’ve let people run it. But listen, Bob, just so you know—
BW:
Lots of people think you shouldn’t do that. I think if you asked—
TRUMP:
—this was the greatest crime, political crime in the history of our country. They spied on this campaign. The opposite party, in control of the nation, spied on their opponent and their opponent’s political campaign. They caused tremendous injustice. They caused tremendous damage. And they destroyed many lives.
BW:
Listen, I’ve looked at—
TRUMP:
And they got caught.
BW:
I’m looking at that really closely. It’s going to be very interesting to see what this U.S. Attorney Durham comes up with.
TRUMP:
Well, let’s see what he comes up with. They got caught. And frankly, with all the information that’s out there that’s public. They got caught. This was a treasonous act. This was a terrible act. And if this were Obama sitting in the seat where I am right now instead of me, these people would’ve been in jail. For 50 years they would’ve gone to jail. They would’ve spent 50 years in jail, meaning they would’ve died in jail.
COMMENTARY: There was no evidence that Obama spied on Trump’s campaign.
BW:
Okay, Mr. President—
TRUMP:
And this is a disgraceful—
BW:
—let me ask you this question while—
TRUMP:
And frankly it’s something that should—
BW:
Ask Lindsey Graham what does he—
TRUMP:
—never be allowed to happen in our country again. And should never happen to another president again. They spied on our campaign—
BW:
I know you—
TRUMP:
And after I won—They tried to make it so I couldn’t win, and I did. Then after I won, they tried to take me out. And we stopped them.
BW:
I wonder—
TRUMP:
And the biggest, one of the most important things I did was firing the sleazebag named Comey, because if I didn’t, all of—
BW:
[laughs] I’ve heard your views on that six times, sir. The question is, ask Lindsey Graham whether he thinks it’s a good idea for you to be saying publicly and get in a fight with the attorney general about your authority. Is that a good thing for you to do?
TRUMP:
All I did—no, but see, it’s because it’s the fake news. They only put the part on, I have the authority. I didn’t say that. I said, I have decided not to use it.
BW:
Yes, I saw that—
TRUMP:
But I do want everyone to know that I do have the authority, but I’ve decided not to use it. They don’t show that. They just say I do have the authority. Do you understand?
BW:
I do—
TRUMP:
They cut it up and they slice it up. You don’t see the real deal. Anyway, Bob—hey Bob, call me when you’re ready. I’m asking Jared to deal with you. There has been no president even close that has done what I’ve done in three years. You know it and so does everybody else. Let’s see whether or not you’re willing to write it.
BW:
Okay, well—Jared told me about—
TRUMP:
Jared just walked in. Bob’s legit. He wanted to do a book about me 25 years ago, Jared. [crosstalk]
COMMENTARY: Earlier in February I had spoken with Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law, who was often deployed personally by Trump as an out-of-channels special project officer. Kushner’s view of the world was a declaration of optimism about Trump, the presidency, and Trump’s reelection chances. Kushner said he knew that Trump’s constant refrain that the economy had never been better in history was an exaggeration. But the economy is really great, Kushner said. “If you have a good issue, controversy elevates message.” When the president says it’s the best economy in the world and it’s only a good economy, that’s enough, Kushner is saying. That is the message that comes through to people.
So that’s what Trump wanted me to do here: deliver his message. It didn’t matter that it wasn’t true.
BW:
Can I talk to—is he there?
TRUMP:
Yes. Can you talk to who? Yeah, Jared. Jared’s here. You want him?
BW:
Yes, I’d love to say hello.
TRUMP:
You want Jared? Yeah, here he is. Hold it.
BW:
Okay.
TRUMP:
Take care of yourself, Bob. Say hello to your wife. Okay?
BW:
Okay. Thank you, sir.
TRUMP:
Hold on.
KUSHNER:
Hello?
BW:
Jared, Bob Woodward. How are you?
KUSHNER:
Good. How are you?
BW:
Good. Did you hear what he said? That I’m going to come see you. We’ve got a date scheduled I think next week.
KUSHNER:
Perfect.
BW:
And then you can help me with some of these other people I want to talk to. Is that—
KUSHNER:
Perfect. Well, what I’ll do is I’ll make a list of other people. What I heard from the president is basically that I now work for you [both laugh], so I will make myself available around that schedule and I will make sure I get you a good list. I’ll come up with my list, and if you come with your list of wants, I will work to try to make it all happen.
BW:
I want you to know I have no illusions that you work for me. I know you work for Ivanka, right?
