The Trump Tapes, page 21
OPERATOR:
Mr. Woodward, the President.
TRUMP:
Hi, Bob.
BW:
President Trump, how are you?
TRUMP:
How are you? Lindsey said, give you a call. I just spoke to a couple of people. I said I just came back from two speeches, and I said I got to call the man. What’s going on? You’re doing okay.
BW:
Well, I am. I was watching the Democratic debate. I thought you would be watching.
TRUMP:
I am. I just turned it on. I have Tivo—the world’s greatest invention. So, ah, it does give you a little leeway, right, to put it mildly. But no, I’m watch—I just watched the very beginning of it. It’s boring as hell, but I gotta—it’s almost like an obligation to watch; it’s called debate prep.
BW:
Well, what I’m trying to do, and I’m turning my recorder on here as I always do just so I have a good—I make sure I get everything right.
TRUMP:
Ok.
BW:
I’m trying to focus on all the policies—
TRUMP:
Right.
BW:
—because I think in the end, by September or October, that’s what people are going to be voting on.
TRUMP:
Could be. No, I think they’re going to be voting on a lot of things, including the economy, which is phenomenal. We’ve had a lot of victories this week [laughing], it’s a lot. We’ve had a lotta good stuff happen.
BW:
But you’ve made a lot of news.
TRUMP:
Yup.
BW:
How do you feel about all that now?
COMMENTARY: I am asking about the State of the Union address on February 4th, three days before this interview.
TRUMP:
Good. I think good. It’s, ah… We had a great speech. Some people thought it was a phenomenal speech. Got very good reviews. For the most part, I got tremendous reviews. You saw that. The one… the State of the Union. Good day, won a big court case today. Big one in the DC Circuit.
BW:
I saw that.
TRUMP:
Lotta, lotta things—went to North Carolina today to—good job. And then I came back, and I just spoke before the governors of the country, the governors, and they come to the White House on Sunday night, you know, for the big governors’ deal. The Governors Ball, I think they call it.
BW:
What I’m trying to do is explain to people what you’ve done and what you’re doing on—
TRUMP:
Okay.
BW:
—North Korea, China, the Middle East, Russia, the economy, health care. And I want to—
TRUMP:
That’s good.
BW:
And let me be direct with you. There are people over there at the White House who are helping me. Some are dragging their feet. I’m not sure—
TRUMP:
Some don’t know the answers because I don’t tell everybody what I want to do. For good reason. I don’t tell everybody. You know, I have people that work here that I don’t tell them what I want to do. It depends. Who are you speaking to?
BW:
Ambassador O’Brien, Matt Pottinger, people on the NSC staff—
TRUMP:
Some of them don’t know, and some of them don’t know what they’re supposed to be saying in terms of, you know, how much are we supposed to be telling one of the great writers of all time, right?
BW:
Well, I hope everything—
TRUMP:
Yeah, well—
BW:
—and as you and I have talked, it’s very important—
TRUMP:
I mean, you can’t give away your strategy. Like, if I have a certain military concept or a strategy, I can’t tell you what that strategy is because when you write it, it’s like Bolton. You know, Bolton can’t do a book and, you know, he leaves the White House and he does a book. You can’t do that kind of stuff.
COMMENTARY: John Bolton, Trump’s national security adviser for 18 months in 2018 and 2019, finally published a book, The Room Where It Happened, which really was an exposé of Trump’s mishandling of foreign policy.
BW:
But I want to look back. Also, you’ve had three years of policy and I want to explain it to people in detail—
TRUMP:
Tremendous success. We’re down low with the troops in Afghanistan—out of Syria other than we kept the oil. You know, I kept the oil, by the way. I hope you know that.
COMMENTARY: Trump publicly has made this claim many times that he “kept the oil.” Not true: The State Department downplayed this language completely, clarifying that U.S. forces were fighting to secure the oil fields against ISIS, but they were not there to extract the oil. If the U.S. were to take oil without permission from the government of those countries, legal experts on all sides said it would amount to pillaging—which is a war crime under international law.
Trump was obsessed with getting the natural resources from other countries, including Afghanistan.
In my first book on Trump, Fear, I described how Trump was infuriated because he thought the Chinese were getting copper out of Afghanistan while the U.S. was sitting idly by on its ass. His aides said they were running all these decisions through a National Security Council process. “I don’t need it done through a fucking process!” Trump yelled. “I need you guys to go in there and get this stuff. It’s free!”
BW:
So what’s the biggest economic issue you think people are going to be voting on at the end of the year?
TRUMP:
Well, I think the economy, just the economy. You know, the issue is the economy. There are lots of little things that go into making a great economy. But when you add it all up, it’s going to be THE economy.
BW:
OK? What are those little things, if I may ask? Because, well, that’s what people are connecting to. I mean—
TRUMP:
The trade deals are the biggest thing. We’re going to be taking in… by the time the election comes around… Now, we got a little bit of an interesting setback with the virus going in China, you know, because we signed this massive China deal. But right now they are very focused on that. And I think that goes away in two months with the heat. You know, as it gets hotter—
BW:
I saw that, yes.
TRUMP:
—that tends to kill the virus. So, you know, you hope. But so that should be in good shape. I spoke to President Xi last night. We had a great talk for a long time.
BW:
Yes, now tell me about that. What was on his mind—
TRUMP:
I have a good relationship with him, actually. I have, ah—
BW:
Though you’ve been tough on him at times, too.
TRUMP:
Oh yeah, we’ve had some arguments, but we have a good relationship. I think we like each other… a lot. I think I like, you know, most of the leaders I get along with very well. People wouldn’t understand that, and they respect this country again. They didn’t respect us. They were taking advantage of us. That includes our allies.
BW:
And so what was President Xi saying yesterday?
TRUMP:
Well, we were talking mostly about the, ah, the virus, and I think he’s going to have it in good shape. But, you know, it’s a very tricky situation.
BW:
Indeed it is.
TRUMP:
It goes—it goes through air, Bob. That’s always tougher than the touch. You know, the touch. You don’t have to touch things, right, but the air, you just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed. And so that’s a very tricky one. That’s a very delicate one. It’s also more deadly than your, you know, your, even your strenuous flus. People don’t realize we lose 25,000 to 30,000 people a year here. Who would ever think that, right?
BW:
I know. What are you able to do—
TRUMP:
It’s pretty amazing. And then I say, well, is that the same thing? [crosstalk] This is more deadly. This is five per, you know, this is five percent versus one percent and less than one percent. You know, so this is deadly stuff. And—but he’s got it. I think he’s going to do a good job. He built, you know, a number of hospitals in record-setting time. They know what they’re doing. They’re very… they’re very organized. And we’ll see. We’re working with them. We’re sending them things, you know, in terms of equipment and lots of other things. And the relationship is very good, much better than before, you know, before it was strained because of the deal, but before that they were just taken advantage of, you know, like, if you go back to Obama, Bush, and every other, you know, and everybody else.
BW:
I want to make it clear what I’m trying to do. You and I talked about this in December. What are people thinking? They’re saying: ah, what’s the next stage of good?
TRUMP:
Well, in December, they said I’ll never be able to get a great deal or a deal with China. And not only did I make a deal, I made a great deal. It’s a great deal for this country. It’s a great deal.
BW:
And I want to get exactly how it worked.
TRUMP:
Well, I mean, I got it done. I got it done. How it worked is that I told people that this is the deal and you got to sign it.
BW:
I understand that, Mr. President, people are going to say, what’s in this vote for me, right? Don’t you think—
TRUMP:
What’s in what vote? You mean the vote of the president?
BW:
No, when they vote in November—
TRUMP:
November 3rd, okay.
BW:
[crosstalk] And they’re going to say, what’s in this for me?
TRUMP:
I think when they see that kind of—Well, first of all, look at the numbers—225,000 people today, far higher than anticipated by—
BW:
Understand, understand.
TRUMP:
—you know, most of these great geniuses.
BW:
And I want to explain how you got there. And then I want to look forward and tell people in a comprehensive way, this is what Trump will do for you. This is what whoever [static noise] is going to be on the other side. It might be Nancy Pelosi who will be running against you.
TRUMP:
Oh, I don’t know. I think she’s a highly overrated person. I think she’s highly overrated. No, she’s given us 10 points. Yeah. Get me something. Yeah [speaking to someone else], she’s highly overrated. Look, we kicked her ass, and she’s terrible. She’s—she doesn’t know what she’s doing. I think they’ll overthrow her eventually. Hey, my polls went up 10 points, Bob. You saw it—
BW:
I’ve seen that you’re—
TRUMP:
I’ve got the highest numbers now—
BW:
And people are going to say, what’s in an extension of the Trump presidency for me?
TRUMP:
—more success, more safety, great military. I mean, look, I’ve rebuilt the military. I’ve rebuilt our police forces. I’ve helped our police forces. They were getting drained; our military was depleted. I’ve done all of these things. And as far as women are concerned, women want safety. Watch how well I do with the women vote. I see that the rallies—I go to a rally, there’s Women for Trump signs all over the place. Same thing they did last time, Bob. Remember last time? Oh, the women…! I did great with the women. I’m doing record-setting African American numbers. Now let’s see what happens. But, you know, we have the best economy. We have all these great numbers. And if you look at the polls, you see polls that are in the 30s, nobody’s ever been in the 30s. A Republican.
BW:
Understand. And the question is, what’s the plan for the next eight to 10 months?
TRUMP:
Just do well, do well, run the country well, Look—
BW:
Help me define well—
TRUMP:
When you’re running a country, it’s full of surprises. There’s dynamite behind every door, and—
BW:
Huh.
TRUMP:
—you want to say good. But then something happens, something happens. Boeing happens, as an example. Boeing was the greatest company in the world, and all of a sudden it has a big, big misstep and it hurts the country. General Motors goes out on strike. They shouldn’t have gone, they should have been able to work that out, but they couldn’t do it. They go out on strike. Hundreds of thousands of people aren’t working and, you know, all of this stuff happens, Bob. But it happens. But you have to do something with it, and you have to make it good.
BW:
Understand that. But you can still have a plan and a strategy.
TRUMP:
Oh, I have so many plans. I have military plans. I have… you know, the vets? I got Veterans Choice passed, Bob. But you know what, Bob? Here’s the story. Look, I left early for North Carolina. I made two speeches. I got back at seven o’clock and I said, good, I’ll go home now. It’s, you know, enough. And they said, sir, no, you have to go to the big auditorium where you have the governors of the United States and many of their guests and make a speech. I said, oh, that’s great. That’s great. I just came in three minutes ago. I just wanted to call you and say hello, I didn’t really want to do a whole big interview, to be honest.
BW:
[crosstalk] Oh, you’re kind, I appreciate that—And I’m pressing on. I need your help.
TRUMP:
OK, no you and I will meet? Let’s meet where I can give you the proper time.
BW:
OK, good.
TRUMP:
Just came in, I’ve got, like, 20 calls. And on top of it, I didn’t know I was supposed to make a speech tonight and I did. I did a nice job. You would have been proud of me, but I had the governors of the country and over at some big auditorium. And so I just did that. So I just got in. But we’ll meet sometime soon. When do you want to meet, Bob?
BW:
Good, great. And what you need—you could help me with, sir, is who were the key people?—
TRUMP:
OK.
BW:
—I need to talk to. I need to talk to Ambassador O’Brien.
TRUMP:
Yeah.
BW:
You see what I want to do? I don’t want somebody to pick up this book when it comes out and say, well, I don’t know what’s in it for me.
TRUMP:
When are you coming out? What’s your date for this?
BW:
You know, September or October right before the election, to say, here’s… here’s the story.
TRUMP:
Good, Bob. I like it. I have great confidence in you. I’ll get some—
BW:
I’m going to start pushing the buttons on those Cabinet Office—
TRUMP:
—because nobody else can do what I do. Nobody else can do. You saw the letters from the gentleman. OK, you saw that; nobody else has that.
BW:
That’s only—
TRUMP:
They couldn’t even talk to them on the phone. You know, it’s a hermit kingdom. Nobody could speak to him on the phone. Remember, I said, did you ever hear of Elton John? No, no, I didn’t. You know, it’s a hermit kingdom, truly?
BW:
Yes. What’s the status of that relationship with Kim?
TRUMP:
Well, it’s fine, you haven’t seen anything, you know, you kept hearing about a Christmas present, you haven’t seen that yet, have you?
BW:
No, maybe it’ll be—
TRUMP:
It’s fine, it’s fine. It’s better than being in war. If we had Obama, we would have been at war—and it would have been a bad war, too, you know, would have been a rough war. We gave him nothing, other than I gave him a couple of meetings.
BW:
Those letters, as you know, no one has ever seen them.
TRUMP:
Nobody’s ever seen them, except me and you. Most people that work here other than the very top, and even most of them haven’t.
BW:
I wouldn’t give them to Matt Pottinger, but I gave him the list of twenty-nine major letters between you and Kim and Kim and you. If you look at this and you put the chronology together and your tweets and statements from Kim, you see what happened? You see the evolution—
TRUMP:
Good.
BW:
—of a policy—
TRUMP:
And the relationship, the very good relationship in a certain way. You know, it’s pretty amazing, actually. But I’ll see you sometime shortly. Okay?
BW:
Thank you. Okay, thanks. Good evening.
TRUMP:
So long, Bob. You, too, Bye.
[Recording ends]
COMMENTARY: I had seen a few news reports about the virus in China. China had reported more than 800 deaths from the virus, mostly in the province of Wuhan, home to more than 9 million people. Wuhan had been under strict lockdown for two weeks to stem the outbreak, which later became known as the “2019 novel coronavirus” or COVID-19.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had announced the first confirmed coronavirus case in the U.S. on January 21st. President Trump responded in an interview with CNBC in Davos the following day.
TRUMP:
It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.
In early February, like most Americans I was not focused on the virus. I’d heard no one calling for any change in Americans’ behavior other than not traveling to China. There were around 12 confirmed coronavirus cases in the United States and no deaths at that point. The CDC was watching all of this closely. Our nation’s top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, said:
FAUCI:
The risk right now, today, currently, is really relatively low for the American public, but that could change.
During our phone call, Trump said President Xi knew what he was doing.
TRUMP:
He’s got it. I think he’s going to do a good job. He built, you know, a number of hospitals in record-setting time. They know what they’re doing. They’re very… they’re very organized.
